TESTIMONY OF TROY EUGENE WEST beginning at 6H356...

    The testimony of Troy Eugene West was taken at 10:30 a.m., on April 8, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

    Mr. BELIN. Mr. West, would you raise your right hand, please.
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
    Mr. WEST. I do.
    Mr. BELIN. You want to sit down now, please. Will you please state your name for the record? Your name is Troy Eugene West?
    Mr. WEST. Troy Eugene West.
    Mr. BELIN. How old are you, Mr. West?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I was born in 1907. That would be 57, I think.
    Mr. BELIN. Were you born in Texas?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. You go to school at all in Texas?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. How far did you get through school?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I went to the seventh grade.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
    Mr. WEST. Well; I had to come out of school and go to work.
    Mr. BELIN. You started working then?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you started working? Where did you --
    Mr. WEST. On the farm.
    Mr. BELIN. On the farm?
    Mr. WEST. On the farm, yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. How long did you stay on the farm?
    Mr. WEST. Oh, I stayed on the farm until way up after I got grown. way up past--I guess I was about 24.
    Mr. BELIN. When you left the the farm, then what did you do when you left the farm?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I came to town after I left.
    Mr. BELIN. You came to Dallas?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; little town at Mexia, Tex.
    Mr. BELIN. How long did you stay in town there?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I lived there for about 7 years, I guess.

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    Mr. BELIN. You were in town for 7 years, and generally what did you do when you were in town?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I worked the express all the time.
    Mr. BELIN. For any particular company?
    Mr. WEST. I was trying to think of the man's name.
    Mr. BELIN. You can't remember it right now?
    Mr. WEST. I just can't remember it right now. Been quite a little while.
    Mr. BELIN. Well, do you remember what you did after you got through doing that? After 6 or 7 years, then where did you go?
    Mr. WEST. I came to Dallas.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do in Dallas, generally?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I worked around just different places until I started to work for the company where I am now.
    Mr. BELIN. When did you start working for them?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I have been with them now about 16 years.
    Mr. BELIN. You have been with them 16 or 17 years? What company is that?
    Mr. WEST. Texas School Book Depository.
    Mr. BELIN. Are you still working for them now?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. What do you do for the Texas School Book Depository?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I am a mail wrapper.
    Mr. BELIN. You are a mail wrapper?
    Mr. WEST. I wrap mail all the time.
    Mr. BELIN. Were you doing that on November 22d of 1963, too? Were you a mail wrapper at that time back in last November?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you go to work on November 22, 1963? That was a Friday, the day the President was assassinated.
    Mr. WEST. Yes; I went to work that day.
    Mr. BELIN. What time did you get to work?
    Mr. WEST. Well, we always got to work---we were supposed to be there at 8 in the morning.
    Mr. BELIN. You got there at 8 that morning?
    Mr. WEST. Yes. I always, most of the time I got there a little early.
    Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what time you got to work that particular morning?
    Mr. WEST. It was about 10 minutes to 8. I always be 5 or 10 minutes early.
    Mr. BELIN. Where did you go when you got to work?
    Mr. WEST. Well, when I first got to work I always made coffee in the morning at the store. That is the first thing I do in the morning.
    Mr. BELIN. Where did you make the coffee?
    Mr. WEST. Sir?
    Mr. BELIN. Where did you make coffee?
    Mr. WEST. Well, it is down on the first floor in the same department where I wrap mail at.
    Mr. BELIN. Well, I have a first floor map here of the School Book Depository. Here is Elm Street and here is the front entrance.
    Here is Mr. Truly's office, and here is Mr. Shelley's office.
    There is the stairway down to the basement, and there are the elevators and the back stairway. There are the toilets there. About where would you wrap mail there? Here is the domino room and the shower.
    You are .looking here, that is north Elm Street runs this way and Houston Street runs that way. It is shown on that diagram.
    Mr. WEST. Well, my place was in the west side of the other building.
    Mr. BELIN. Was it near the stairway?
    Mr. WEST. No; it wasn't close to the stairway.
    Mr. BELIN. Was it closer to the Elm Street side of the building?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. What was it close to? The west side is the side near the railroad tracks and the triple underpass. Is that what you think is the west side?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir; that is what I would call the west side.

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    Mr. BELIN. Well, now, the northwest part is by the stairway, and the southwest part would be toward the corner near Elm Street. Do you mean toward the Elm or more toward the wooden dock in the back?
    Mr. WEST. Well, it was about, I would say, middleways between Elm and the dock.
    Mr. BELIN. Well, there are a couple of overhead doors on that west side, aren't there?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. You see where it is marked on the first floor diagram, overhead door and overhead door? Two doorways here on the west side?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. Then was it near either one of those doorways?
    Mr. WEST. Well, it was near this one, pretty close to this one.
    Mr. BELIN. It was close to what I would call a doorway, approximately in the middle side of the west wall of the first floor?
    Mr. WEST. Yes.
    Mr. BELIN. That is where you wrapped the mail?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. That is where you have the coffee machine?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir; I have it.
    Mr. BELIN. That is where you went when you got to work that morning?
    Mr. WEST. Yes.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you first go to the domino room and leave your lunch or hang up your coat or anything?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir. I just always go right there first. Sometime I pull my coat off and lay it over on the table and go right on.
    Mr. BELIN. How long did you stay about making coffee when you got there? How long did you stay around that place when you first got there?
    Mr. WEST. Well, let's see, it didn't take me too long. I mean, you know, to make the coffee. After I got it made, I went right on and went right on at my work wrapping mail.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you stay in that general area all the time?
    Mr. WEST. Sir?
    Mr. BELIN. Did you stay in that general location all the time?
    Mr. WEST. That was my, all my work was right there on the first floor. I never did---
    Mr. BELIN. Did you see Lee Harvey Oswald that morning?
    Mr. WEST. I did not.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you notice Lee Harvey Oswald?
    Mr. WEST. Sir?
    Mr. BELIN. Did you notice Lee Harvey Oswald?
    Mr. WEST. Yes; I had been seeing him every morning, you know. He would come to work. Excepting the morning, I didn't see him that morning at all.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you generally see him when he first came to work?
    Mr. WEST. Most of the time I see him.
    Mr. BELIN. Where did you see him when he first came to work?
    Mr. WEST. Well, he would come in and probably I would be on my way back to the rest room, probably to get water in my percolator, or maybe wash the cups or something, and I would see him when he would come in, and I would speak and go right ahead.
    Mr. BELIN. What did you say, and what did Lee Harvey Oswald say?
    Mr. WEST. I would just say to him, "Good morning," and he said, "Good morning," to me, and he was going right on, and I did.
    Mr. BELIN. Did he ever stop and get a cup of coffee?
    Mr. WEST. I never did see him stop and get any. I don't know whether he drink coffee or not. He never did stop and get any.
    Mr. BELIN. When you would see him, where would he be walking or working when he first came to work in the morning?
    Mr. WEST. He would be order filler, and naturally, they have bins, all those bins down there made for stock, and he would be working around in there sometime.

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    Mr. BELIN. Did you see him when you walked into work, or did you see him after he started working?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I would notice him times after he done started working.
    Mr. BELIN. You didn't generally see him walking into work, did you, or did you?
    Generally, when you would first see him, would he be just walking into work?
    Mr. WEST. Be just coming in.
    Mr. BELIN. What route would he take when he normally came to work? Do you know what doorway? Did he walk through the front or the back?
    Mr. WEST. Well, it is through the back door. He would come in the side door next to the dock on the northeast side.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what route would he take when he walked in?
    Mr. WEST. Well, he would come right in, and a lot of times I would be mostly, or be passing him, and he would come right in and probably I'd go right on, and I never would see him no more than that he would be on that work, or whatever.
    Mr. BELIN. When he came in, for instance, did he go right to an elevator to go upstairs, or did he go over to the domino room, or down to the basement, or where would be go when he would first come in?
    Mr. WEST. He would go and pull off his Jacket or Coat or whatever he had on, and go on to work there.
    Mr. BELIN. Well, where would he put his coat when he took it off?
    Mr. WEST. Sometimes he would hang it up.
    Mr. BELIN. Where?
    Mr. WEST. Pretty close to the elevator, or something, or lots of times he would just lay it down on something there in the building.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see him take his jacket into the domino room to hang it up?
    Mr. WEST. No; I never did see him.
    Mr. BELIN. He would either lay his jacket or hang it up by the elevator, or lay it on these boxes where he was working, is that what your testimony is?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir; he would lay it either close, hang it up on the elevator, or either lay it down.
    A lot of times, he would just pull it off and lay it down.
    Mr. BELIN. Would he ever take his shirt off and put it down there and just work in a T-shirt?
    Mr. WEST. I don't believe I ever seen him working in just a T-shirt. He worked in his shirt all right, but I never did see him work in a T-shirt.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see him carrying his lunch inside?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I never did see him with any lunch.
    Mr. BELIN. On the morning of November 22, did you happen to see Buell Wesley Frazier? Do you remember Frazier who worked down there?
    Mr. WEST. Yes.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you happen to see him come in that morning on November 22, that Friday, if you remember?
    Mr. WEST. Well, lots of times I seen him that day, but now I didn't see him when he came in, because I had got busy at working and I might have probably had been in, you know, a good while before I saw him. I didn't see when he came.
    Mr. BELIN. Now, I believe you earlier testified you never saw Oswald on November 22?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I didn't see him that day.
    Mr. BELIN. Were you generally at your spot in the west part of the first floor there Chat you are talking about by the mailing place?
    Mr. WEST. Yes.
    Mr. BELIN. Were there many days when you would ever see him working down there in the morning near you?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir. I had generally been seeing him nearly every morning, excepting that morning I didn't see him at all.
    Mr. BELIN. You saw him every morning except that morning?
    Mr. WEST. Practically every morning except then.
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    Mr. BELIN. When did you quit for lunch that day?
    Mr. WEST. Well, we always quit at 12 o'clock in the day.
    Mr. BELIN. Is that when you quit on November 22d?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I went in and washed my hands and face and then got ready to put my coffee on. I always make coffee at 12. Make it in the morning, and then I make it about 12, between 12 and 12:30.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? Did you put your coffee on?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. In the west part of the first floor where you generally work?
    Mr. WEST. Yes.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I went to get my lunch to eat a bite.
    Mr. BELIN. Where did you get your lunch?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I always kept my lunch right there close by my machine, by my wrapping machine that I use all the time, that I always kept my lunch. I have a little place underneath and I keep it there all the time.
    Mr. BELIN. Are you the only one that wraps the books for mailing, or wraps them up for mailing?
    Mr. WEST. Well, no, sir; I am not the only one, but mine is that way just every day.
    Mr. BELIN. You do it all the time?
    Mr. WEST. Yes; I .do that.
    Mr. BELIN. Are you the only one that does it an the time?
    Mr. WEST. I am the only one that is steady, wraps mail all the time, although I have help, you know, when it gets stacked.
    Mr. BELIN. Did Lee Harvey Oswald ever help you wrap mail?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; he never did.
    Mr. BELIN. Do you know whether or not he ever borrowed or used any wrapping paper for himself?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I don't.
    Mr. BELIN. You don't know?
    Mr. WEST. No; I don't.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see him around these wrapper rolls or wrapper roll machines, or not?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I never noticed him being around.
    Mr. BELIN. Are they paper machines with the rolls of wrapping paper? You have some gum there too, for taping it? When you wrap it, would you tape it with some tape ?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I never seen him.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you do that? Did you put tape on the wrapping paper when it was being shipped? When you wrap the books up with wrapping paper, did you have any gum tape that you put on it?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I had a machine that I placed it on the machine and tied it with, and the machine tied it with a string.
    Mr. BELIN. With string?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. Didn't you have any gummed tape by your machine?
    Mr. WEST. Sir?
    Mr. BELIN. Did you have any kind of a tape, sticky tape that you would put on the paper to keep it together, or was that somewhere else?
    Mr. WEST. Oh, yes, sir; I used some of that wide tape.
    Mr. BELIN. Is that sticky tape?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. To seal the package with?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir; that's right.
    And then I tie it, put it on the machine and then tie it.
    Mr. BELIN. Is yours the only place that they have the sticky tape ?
    Mr. WEST. Well, that is the only place that is supposed to be, you know.

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    Mr. BELIN. Could other employees come and pick up some of the tape for themselves?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir; they could come get it if they wanted to use it, but all the time it was there where it is supposed to be.
    Mr. BELIN. Did other employees from time to time come and borrow some of that tape at all, or use it? Would other employees ever use any of that tape for themselves?
    Mr. WEST. Not as I know of now.
    Mr. BELIN. If I wanted to use any of that tape, you know that tape that you use to seal it, is there a way to make tape wet so I don't have to lick it myself with my tongue to make it wet and sticky? Or how did you get it to be sticky and stick together?
    Mr. WEST. Well, we have those machines with the little round ball that we fill them up with water, and so we set them up. In to other words, I got a rack that we set them in, and so we put out tape in a machine, and whenever we pull the tape through, why then the water gets, you know, it gets water on it as we pull it through.
    Mr. BELIN. If I wanted to pull the tape, pull off a piece without getting water on it, would I just lift it up without going over the wet roller and get the tape without getting it wet?
    Mr. WEST. You would have to take it out. You would have to take it out of the machine. See, it's put on there and then run through a little clamp that holds it down, and you pull it, well, then the water, it gets water on it.
    Mr. BELIN. Is this an electrical machine or is it Just kind of a little apparatus for Just pulling it through by hand?
    Mr. WEST. Well, it is not electric, no, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. Now going back to November 22, you said you quit for lunch around noon on that day on Friday, November 22?
    Mr. WEST. Yes. About 12 o'clock we always quit for lunch.
    Mr. BELIN. Do you remember any of the men coming down the elevator that day? Bonnie Ray Williams or James Jarman, Jr., or Danny Arce, or any one else coming down that morning? Charlie Givens?
    Do you remember them coming down the elevator, or don't you remember?
    Mr. WEST. I don't remember.
    Mr. BELIN. Now, after you quit for lunch, you made the coffee then?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. Where did you make the coffee?
    Mr. WEST. I made the coffee right there close to the wrapping mail table where I wrap mail.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I sit down to eat my lunch.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I had just, after I made coffee, I just had started to eat my lunch because I was a little hungry---I didn't eat anything that morning before I went to work---and I had started to eat my lunch.
    But before I got through, well, all of this was, I mean, the police and things was coming in, and I was just spellbound. I just didn't know what was the matter. So I didn't get through eating. I had to eat about half my lunch, and that is all.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you hear any shots fired?
    Mr. WEST. I didn't hear a one. Didn't hear a one.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone else on the first floor while you were eating your lunch? Anyone else at all did you see on the first floor?
    Mr. WEST. It wasn't anybody. I didn't see anybody around at that time.
    Mr. BELIN. At any time while you were making coffee or eating your lunch, did you see anyone else on the first floor?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I didn't see.
    Mr. BELIN. Who was the first person you saw on the first floor after you--- while you were eating your lunch? Someone came in the building?
    Mr. WEST. Yes; before I got through. The officers and things were coming in the front door.

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    Mr. BELIN. Who was the first person or persons that you saw coming through there while you were eating your lunch?
    Mr. WEST. Well, that was police.
    Mr. BELIN. A police officer?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. Anyone else?
    Mr. WEST. I guess it was a bunch of them, I guess, FBI men, and just a crowd of them coming in there.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you see Roy Truly coming in at all that time? Do you know Mr. Truly?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir; that is the boss, the superintendent.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see him, do you remember, while you were eating your lunch, come in the building?
    Mr. WEST. Yes, sir; I think he came in with the police.
    Mr. BELIN. Was he one of the first people in, or did other people come ahead of him, if you remember?
    Mr. WEST. Really, I just don't know.
    Mr. BELIN. That is okay if you don't remember. That is all I want you to say if you don't remember.
    Did you hear anyone yelling to let the elevator loose or anything like eat?
    Mr. WEST. I can't remember.
    Mr. BELIN. Were you working when you were eating your lunch? Were you facing the elevator or not when you were eating your lunch? Were you facing any of the elevators back there?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I was always--I mean I would always be with my back kind of, you know, towards the elevators and facing the front side over on the side.
    Mr. BELIN. The Elm Street side?
    Mr. WEST. Toward Elm Street side.
    Mr. BELIN. So you don't know whether anyone was using the elevators?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I don't.
    Mr. BELIN. Do you know whether anyone was going up and down the stairs?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I don't.
    Mr. BELIN. Do you know anything else about what happened on November 22, that might be helpful or relevant here?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I don't really.
    Mr. BELIN. Were you ever on the second. floor on November 22?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I never did. hardly ever leave the first floor. That is just I stayed there where all my work was, and I just stayed there.
    Mr. BELIN. On November 22, did you ever leave the first floor?
    Mr. WEST. No, sir; I never did leave the first floor.
    Mr. BELIN. Anything else that you can think of, whether I have asked it or not?
    Mr. WEST. Well, I don't know anything else. I know of nothing else.
    Mr. BELIN. Well, we thank you very much for coming down here, Mr. West. If you want, you can come back down again and read your deposition and sign , or else you can just waive coming down here. You don't have to come down. You can tell the court reporter to send it directly to us, if you want to.
    Mr. WEST. You mean when I get ready to sign it?
    Mr. BELIN. Now you do not have to sign it if you don't want to. You can just tell the court reporter to type it up and send it directly to us, or you can tell the court reporter you would like to read it and sign it before she sends it to us in Washington.
    You don't have to sign it. Or if you want to sign it, you can come back and sign it, whichever you want to do.
    Mr. WEST. Well, I think--I don't know.
    Mr. BELIN. Do you want to come down here again and. read it and sign it, or do you want to waive?
    You can waive and tell the court reporter that she can just send it after she types it up, directly to us in Washington without your reading it and signing it.

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    Mr. WEST. Well, I think that is what I will do, just have it waived and send it on.
    Mr. BELIN. All right, that is fine.
    Thank you very much, sir.