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Mr. EISENBERG. Seven days after the assassination.
And in the intervening period, correspondingly, the FBI had no such
knowledge?
Mr. LATONA. As far as I know.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, could you tell us what portion of the palm
of Lee Harvey Oswald you identified that print as being?
Mr. LATONA. Yes. Here again I have a photograph that will show the
approximate area involved, which is on the ulnar side of the lower portion of the palm.
Mr. EISENBERG. The ulnar----
Mr. LATONA. Down near the base of the palm toward the wrist.
Mr. EISENBERG. This is the right palm?
Mr. LATONA. The right palm.
Mr. EISENBERG. As it was in the case of the paper bag, Exhibit 142?
Mr. LATONA. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you display that photograph, please? This is a
photograph which you took of the inked print which was furnished to you by the Dallas
office?
Mr. LATONA. I didn't personally prepare the photographs. They were
prepared at my personal direction.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was it prepared under your supervision?
Mr. LATONA. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is it an accurate reproduction?
Mr. LATONA. It is.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have this admitted as 638?
Representative FORD. It shall be admitted.
(The photograph referred to was marked as Commission Exhibit No. 638,
and received in evidence.)
Mr. LATONA. I might point out that you have the original of this which
has been previously admitted.
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; but this photograph shows a red circle around the
portion which you identified----
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. As being the latent found on the lift, is that right?
(Discussion off the record.)
(The reporter read the last question.)
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, now you are showing me another photograph
which appears to be a photograph of the lift itself, Exhibit 637, but an enlargement
thereof?
Mr. LATONA. Slightly enlarged; yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was this prepared by you or under your supervision?
Mr. LATONA. It was.
Mr. EISENBERG. And there is a red circle around this, on this
photograph, that is around the print, the latent print?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have this photograph admitted as
639?
Representative FORD. It shall be admitted.
(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 639, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did you also prepare a chart showing an
enlarged portion of the inked and latent palmprint?
Mr. LATONA. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. Illustrating some of the points which you used in making
your identification?
Mr. LATONA. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was this chart prepared by you or under your
supervision?
Mr. LATONA. This was prepared under my direct supervision.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted as 640?
Representative FORD. It shall be admitted.
(The chart referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 640, and
received in evidence.)
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Mr. EISENBERG. What is the enlargement of this chart?
Mr. LATONA. Approximately an eight-time enlargement of the latent print
which appears on the lift, Commission Exhibit----
Mr. EISENBERG. 637?
Mr. LATONA. 637. And the inked right palmprint enlargement is
approximately eight times an enlargement of the Exhibit 638.
Mr. EISENBERG. The inked print?
Mr. LATONA. Which is encircled in red, a portion of that area.
Mr. EISENBERG. I wonder whether you could put that up on this easel
here so that we can all see it, and explain to us some of the points which led you to your
conclusion.
Mr. LATONA. Here again the approach insofar as making a comparison is
concerned is exactly the same. That never changes. In making a comparison of fingerprints
or palmprints, the mechanics are exactly the same.
First to look for what might be considered as points which are easy to
see to the fingerprint man.
Representative FORD. May I ask first was the lift a good print for
technical purposes?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; to the extent that the identification was made. There
is no question as to the identity.
Now, insofar as quality is concerned, I believe that is what you have
in mind, we don't, in fingerprint circles, don't say that this is a good latent as
compared to a bad latent. If it is valuable for purposes of identification, so far as we
are concerned it is good.
Now, that may not appear to the inexperienced eye possibly as being as
clear as some of those others which you have already seen, but for the purpose of
identification the points are here. That is the main thing.
Now, in making the comparison here it is easy to see the inked print.
There is very little question here. This print was made on purpose for purposes of
recording the ridges. This was made more or less incidental or possibly accidental.
Mr. DULLES. How does the left one differ? I thought you told us before
it was 10 times.
Mr. LATONA. No; those were the others.
Mr. DULLES. That was the fingerprint that was 10 times?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. DULLES. And the palm has always been eight times?
Mr. LATONA. That is right, because of the fact to make it 10 times it
would have been enlarged to the extent that maybe you wouldn't be able to see the
significance as to what it purports to be.
If you enlarge a fingerprint too much, it loses its identity. I have
seen them where they were enlarged so big that you couldn't tell what they were, and if
somebody would tell you it is a fingerprint you would say, if you say so it is, but it
doesn't look like it to me.
Now, in some other sciences, for example, like handwriting and things
of that kind, you can enlarge them pretty good size, typewriting and things of that type,
but a fingerprint because of the poorness in contrast plus the fact that in themselves
these black marks have no particular significance, they might lose their identity, you
won't reconcile a palmprint with a palmprint.
So, actually for purposes of making comparisons we never make a
comparison from an enlargement. The best way to make a comparison, the more complete, is
to make it from the actual size, utilizing a regular fingerprint glass which enlarges
approximately four diameters.
We would never think of enlarging the prints for purposes of making our
initial comparison. We make them on the basis of the actual size, just like you see it
here, utilizing a fingerprint, which gives you a better picture.
Mr. EISENBERG. Fingerprint glass, you mean?
Mr. LATONA. Fingerprint glass, because you get a much better view of
the impression than you do where it is enlarged because in enlarging you have a tendency
to distort the dissimilarities, to exaggerate what may be considered as dissimilarities.
Now, looking at these marks here again, which are very apparent here in
the
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ink print, this No. 1 which is a black line which flows over to the right, then one ridge
directly below it and off to the left is this point No. 2. Then by counting down 1, 2, 3,
4 we come to this portion, a short-ending ridge, which is similar to this short-ending
ridge in the illustration drawn on the board, is No. 3.
Now, here again the fingerprintman simply mentally says to himself,
"If these palmprints were made by the same palm I should be able to find three such
points in approximately the same area of this palmprint as was found here."
The manner of isolating the area is by virtue of the fact that you see
this looping formation, the looping formation is right in here, rather vague but it is
there.
Looking in that approximate area, you notice faintly this black line
that comes over to this area and stops at the point there. Now, is this point No. 1 the
same as this point No. 17 If it is, then there should be a point No. 2 in the latent print
which is in the same relative position as point No. 2 occurs in the ink print. By looking
in such a position by this one ridge removed and to the left, there is this point No. 2.
Then looking down to point No. 3, we notice one, two, three, four,
there is this so-called short-ending ridge which to me shows up very clearly here in the
enlargement of the latent print.
Point No. 4 is this black line which is coming toward point No. 3, and
right within the same area or line, there is point No. 4.
Point No. 5 is picked up in this position over here, which is another
one of these short-ending ridges. It is removed by one ridge or rather to the left of
point No. 6 as is seen here.
Then we pick up point No. 7, which is this point showing a cluster of
ridge formation here.
Point No. 8 is tied in. You can tie in point No. 8 to point No. 4,
point No. 5 to point No. 7, and that coincides with point No. 8 here. In that way we pick
up point No. 9, showing the relationship of one, two, three and over here one, two, three,
always the same formation, the same general area, the same relationship to each other. In
that way we pick up point No. 10, point No. 11, and point No. 12, which have exactly the
same formation.
Here is point No. 10 coming this way, point No. 11 going that way,
these two ridges are in between. It checks perfectly. The same way with point No. 12 which
is just below point No. 11, and having the same relationship to point No. 10, the same
general areas, identically the same type of characteristics, and exactly the same
relationship to each other.
On the basis of those points, the obvious conclusion to an experienced
fingerprintman is simply that the same palm made both of these prints. Only one palm could
have made it, and that palm is the one which is alleged to be of Lee Harvey Oswald, his
right palm.
Representative BOGGS. Is it true that every fingerprint of each
individual on earth is different?
Mr. LATONA. Yes, sir; that is my sincere belief. I say that not only on
earth but all those that have died before and all those to come. There will never be
duplication.
Mr. DULLES. The same is true of palmprints, isn't it?
Mr. LATONA. Absolutely; yes, sir; fingerprints and palmprints and
footprints.
Representative BOGGS. Can they be distorted, destroyed?
Mr. LATONA. They can be destroyed in the sense that----
Representative BOGGS. Cut your finger off, that is right?
Mr. LATONA. Sure, you can cut your finger off. You can resort to what
is known as--they can be transferred. You can slice off a pattern from one finger and
place it on another but you will see the scar. They can have what is known as surgical
planing.
Representative BOGGS. That is what I was thinking about.
Mr. LATONA. That can be done, too.
Representative BOGGS. What happens then?
Mr. LATONA. What happens is that you lose the ridge area and you will
simply have a scar. There will be no more pattern. Now, the pattern is formed by what are
known as dermal papilla, which is below the epidermis or outer layer of skin. As long as
you only injure the outer surface the ridge formation will grow back
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exactly the same as it was before. If you get down to the dermal papilla, which lay like
this----
Mr. EISENBERG. You are drawing an illustration on the board which shows
short, broad, downward strokes.
Mr. LATONA. If you destroy or injure these to the extent that there is
actual bleeding, you will get a permanent scar.
Fingerprints can be destroyed or scarred in such a fashion that we
would not be able to successfully classify them.
Mr. DULLES. Do criminals do that?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; they do. We have had one case, probably the most
successful was known as the so-called Roscoe Pitts case. This was a fugitive who in order
to avoid identification went to an unscrupulous doctor who performed an operation and he
did so by virtue of first cutting five slits on one side of his chest. Then he removed the
pattern areas, what we call the pattern areas, which would consist of removal of the whole
core area down to the delta area, sliced that off.
Representative BOGGS. How much would that be?
Mr. LATONA. He would literally have to draw blood. He would have to get
down and just slice that off completely. He did that with five fingers. Then he taped the
five fingers to the side of his chest and he kept them there for about 2 weeks. The same
procedure was gone through with the other hand, and at the end of that time they were
taken down and bound up individually. When they finally healed, all he has now is scar
tissue for his pattern areas; but all we did in order to identify him was to drop down to
the second joint. We made the identification from the second joint. Now, at that
particular time----
Representative BOGGS. After all that business.
Mr. LATONA. It didn't do him any good. Literally, the easiest person in
our files to identify is Roscoe Pitts. He is the only one that has scar patterns like
that. As soon as they see anything like that, everybody that knows anything about our
files knows-- Roscoe Pitts.
Representative BOGGS. Develop, if you will, please, that point that no
two human beings ever have similar prints. Why is that, in your opinion?
Mr. LATONA. Well, earlier we went through a case which we have in the
FBI, in which we literally have compared millions, millions of single prints with a
fragmentary latent print which we developed on a demand note in a kidnapping case, one of
our major kidnapping cases which occurred back in 1937, and we have compared this
fragmentary print.
Now, ordinarily in fingerprints there are four basic pattern types. You
have an arch, tented arch, a loop, and a whorl.
Now in making a comparison, naturally if you can tell the type of
pattern you are going to restrict your comparison to the particular type.
In this instance we cannot tell what type of pattern this fragment that
we developed is. We know that it is from a finger. And in attempting to identify the
subject of this kidnapping case, we have compared it literally with millions of cards.
Now, existing in this fragmentary print there are only about seven to
eight points that can be found, it is so fragmentary. We cannot determine the pattern.
Accordingly then, when you compare it, you have to compare it with a person's 10 fingers
regardless as to the pattern types. Bearing in mind that the average fingerprint has from
85 to 125 points--identifying characteristics--we have literally made millions of
comparisons with only a portion of a finger, and we have failed to identify these 8 points
in all types of patterns.
Isn't it sufficient to say then that people simply will not have the
same fingerprints? Yet you have authorities, so-called authorities, who say that it is
possible to find all 10 prints duplicated in 1 chance out of 1 followed by 60 zeros, if
you can figure out what that figure is.
Representative BOGGS. Who are these authorities?
Mr. LATONA. They are really in my opinion mathematicians who on the
basis of the so-called characteristic points have said 5 points times 125 times 125 times
125 to about the 10th power and wind up something like 1 followed by 60 zeros. They are
mathematicians but they are not fingerprint people.
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Mr. DULLES. What is your card system like? If this is too confidential
I don't want to get anything in the record here that is too secret. We can take it off the
record.
Mr. LATONA. Nothing is secret about our files.
Mr. DULLES. How many characteristics do you file on a card so that when
you find these characteristics you can go to the right cabinet and the right filing drawer
and then pull out the right card in time?
Mr. LATONA. Literally they can break down into hundreds of thousands of
groups.
Representative BOGGS. How many do you have on file?
Mr. LATONA. We have the fingerprints of 77 1/2 million people?
Representative BOGGS. That includes all of those who were in the Army,
Navy
Mr. LATONA. 15 million criminals and about 62.5 million what we call
civil. I explained earlier that our files consist of two main files, it is criminal files
and the civil files. In the civil files are the fingerprints of individuals, those prints
that we have retained, who have been fingerprinted in connection with some civil affair
like the services, for example, security, sensitive jobs, all types of applicants, alien
registrations. Then we also will accept the fingerprints of just a private citizen who
would like to have his prints on record for simply identification purposes.
They are in the category of 62.5 million. Criminal prints, 15 million.
(Discussion off the record.)
Representative FORD. I have to leave, Mr. Dulles, will you take over as
Chairman for the rest of the time that you can be here?
Mr. DULLES. I will do so.
Representative BOGGS. May I ask a question which is not particularly
pertinent to this particular witness, but how many prints on various things like these
boxes and other paraphernalia that the Commission may now have in its possession have been
identified as those of Oswald?
Mr. LATONA. Six all told.
Representative BOGGS. Six altogether?
Mr. LATONA. Six.
Representative BOGGS. That includes these?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Representative BOGGS. How many, three?
Mr. LATONA. Three so far.
Mr. DULLES. (addressing Mr. Eisenberg). You have dealt with three so
far?
Mr. EISENBERG. Three so far. We should modify this. We are only
introducing this morning evidence associated with the crime, directly with the crime. Now,
there were many papers submitted to the identification division. I believe you did
identify----
Mr. LATONA. Personal effects, wallet, pictures, papers, and things of
that kind which in themselves bear. Oswald's prints, which they should because they belong
to him.
Representative BOGGS. May I ask another question in this connection. A
weapon of this type, in your examination do you .find a lot of other prints on it as well?
You do not?
Mr. LATONA. No. First of all the weapon itself is a cheap one as you
can see. It is one that----
Representative BOGGS. Is what?
Mr. LATONA. A cheap old weapon. The wood is to the point where it won't
take a good print to begin with hardly. The metal isn't of the best, and not readily
susceptible to a latent print.
Representative BOGGS. Was this weapon picked up first by the police?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes, sir.
Representative BOGGS (addressing Mr. Eisenberg). Did anyone touch it as
far as you know?
Mr. EISENBERG. No, no. It was picked up by a police officer attached to
the Dallas police force first.
Mr. DULLES. It came to you directly then from the Dallas police and not
through the Secret Service?
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Page 30
Mr. LATONA. No; the FBI turned it over to me, the Dallas office of the
FBI flew it up here.
Representative BOGGS. What I am trying to determine is, the average
police officer when he would pick up a weapon of that kind would take steps to secure
whatever prints might be on that and also prevent the addition of prints, is that right?
Mr. LATONA. I would assume so.
Representative BOGGS. I mean this is part of his training, isn't it?
Mr. LATONA. Yes, sir; especially if he is--yes; I would say so. That is
almost elementary today. There are so many schools today going that an officer that
doesn't give some thought to latent fingerprints, he hasn't been to school.
Representative BOGGS. Of course not. But do you have that problem in
your normal examination?
Mr. LATONA. Well, a lot of times that all depends. Sometimes they don't
realize the significance of a latent examination, and it is unavoidable that an object has
been contaminated. And then a lot of times it is simply because of the circumstances.
Sometimes possibly in an instance of this kind because of the crime itself which was
involved, I dare say there must have been a lot of panic there at that time. That is just
pure conjecture on my part. I don't know whether they were thinking in details as to the
examination. I don't think they sat down and just figured very calmly what they were going
to do.
Representative BOGGS. Of course not.
Mr. LATONA. I imagine everybody just poured into that room where they
found the thing, somebody would say, "Was this the gun?" and he handed it to
someone else and then he would look at it. Lord knows what went on down there.
By the time the gun got there on the other hand, if the right officer
was there he would have protected it from the beginning and that is unquestionably what
happened here.
Mr. DULLES. I have to make a telephone call. I will be right back.
Mr. EISENBERG. I believe that the print showing in the lift was taken
from an area which had been covered by the wooden stock so that it was protected even
against----
Mr. LATONA. Promiscuous handling, yes. If that were on the underside,
if that was covered by the wood then very obviously those people there never did touch
that.
Mr. EISENBERG. At any rate, we are going to find out exactly what they
did.
Representative BOGGS. Yes. Go ahead.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, just to elaborate on some questions which Mr. Boggs
was asking earlier, Mr. Latona, referring specifically to this weapon, do you believe that
a determination could have been made as to the age of the print found on the weapon which
you have identified as being Oswald's print, and a lift of which is Exhibit No. 637?
Mr. LATONA. No; I don't.
Mr. EISENBERG. You don't?
Mr. LATONA. No; I don't.
Mr. EISENBERG. Are experts unanimous in this opinion?
Mr. LATONA. No; they are not. There are some experts who contend that
they can determine from the way the print develops, and they will use the term
"fresh."
Now, on the other hand, so far as the definition of "fresh,"
then it resolves itself into an hour, a day, a week, a month. What is "fresh" as
aside from an "old" one? And my opinion simply is this. That on the basis of the
print itself, on the basis of the print itself I cannot determine how old it is.
Mr. EISENBERG. At least specifically on this type, or in particular
focusing on this type of weapon?
Mr. LATONA. Particularly on that weapon.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is 139?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. If there are no further questions on Exhibit 139,
Commissioner Boggs, I will move on to another exhibit.
Mr. Latona, I hand you now a small cardboard carton which has written
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on it "Box A" in red pencil and has various other marks which I won't go into,
and I ask you whether you are familiar with this box, this carton?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I am.
Mr. EISENBERG. And did you examine this carton, Mr. Latona, to
determine whether there were any identifiable latent fingerprints present?
Mr. LATONA. I did not personally process this box, but I was present at
the time that the box was, and I had occasion to examine that during the course of its
being processed while it was being done.
Mr. EISENBERG. It was processed in your presence?
Mr. LATONA. In my presence and under my direction.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I would like this admitted as a Commission
exhibit with your permission.
Representative BOGGS. It will be admitted.
Mr. EISENBERG. That will be 641.
(The box referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 641, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, when you received this box which is now 641,
did it bear any evidence that it had been dusted or otherwise tested for fingerprints?
Mr. LATONA. No; it had not, Just a plain cardboard box.
Mr. EISENBERG. So far as you could tell then it had not been?
Mr. LATONA. That is right; it had not been processed,
Mr. EISENBERG. How was it processed in the FBI laboratory?
Mr. LATONA. First by the iodine fume and subsequently by chemical
means.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did the iodine fume develop any identifiable prints?
Mr. LATONA. It did not.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did the chemical means?
Mr. LATONA, The silver nitrate did develop a latent fingerprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. Just one?
Mr. LATONA. A latent fingerprint; yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Just one identifiable print?
Mr. LATONA. One identifiable print; yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Do you want to check your notes on that, Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. There was another print identified on that. There were two
prints, one palmprint. There was developed on Box A, Exhibit No. 641, one palmprint and
one fingerprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. Were those the only identifiable prints, Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. No; there were other fingerprints developed on this box.
Mr. EISENBERG. Do you recall how many there were?
Mr. LATONA. On Box A, in addition to these two prints there were
developed eight fingerprints and three palmprints.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is, a total of 13?
Mr. LATONA. Nine fingerprints and four palmprints.
Mr. EISENBERG. Thirteen identifiable prints?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. DULLES. Could I just get caught up. What is this box we have here?
Mr. EISENBERG. This is a box which was found near the window in the
TSBD from which the assassin apparently fired, that is, the easternmost window or the
south face of the TSBD. Yesterday, cartridge cases--and the day before cartridge cases
were discussed which were also found near that window. This box is labeled on there, I
believe----
Mr. LATONA. "A."
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; and I think it also says "top box": yes;
it says "top box."
Mr. DULLES. This is the "Rolling Reader?"
Mr. EISENBERG. That is right.
Mr. DULLES. The Rolling Reader has played quite a role in our
testimony.
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; now, this particular box is labeled "top
box," and I believe this particular box was on the top of the three boxes, two of
which were Rolling Reader boxes, which were found near the window and which may have been
used as a rest by the assassin for his rifle.
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Mr. DULLES. As I recall, previous testimony indicates that the Rolling
Reader box had been moved from its normal place----
Mr. EISENBERG. Apparently so.
Mr. DULLES. With the other Rolling Reader boxes, and put in a position
near the window from which it was alleged the shot was fired.
Mr. EISENBERG. Apparently so, and, apart from the two boxes--the two
Rolling Reader boxes which were found near the sixth floor window--the regular storage
area for the Rolling Reader boxes was a distance away from the sixth floor window.
Mr. DULLES. Yes; I recall that testimony.
Mr. EISENBERG. So you found 13 identifiable prints, Mr. Latona. Were
you able to identify any of these prints as belonging to a specific individual?
Mr. LATONA. We were able to identify one fingerprint and one palmprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. And whose prints were they?
Mr. LATONA. The fingerprint was identified as Harvey Lee Oswald.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. And the palm?
Mr. LATONA. The palmprint was identified also as Harvey Lee Oswald.
Mr. EISENBERG. Again Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, again you used, did you, the known print which was
marked into evidence earlier?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. And you used those in all your identifications, I
believe?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, can you tell us what portion of the palm of
Lee Harvey Oswald is reproduced on this box, this carton 641, as a latent print?
Mr. LATONA. I have here a photograph of the palmprint which has an,
area indicated by a rough red circle showing the approximate area, which is the ulnar area
of the left palm.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is the area closest to the little finger?
Mr. LATONA. On that side; yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. This is a true photograph which was prepared by you or
under your supervision?
Mr. LATONA. A true reproduction of the original, which you already
have.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted as 642, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. DULLES. May I ask a question. Apparently the red mark on this
exhibit on the palm is in a different place, isn't it, a slightly different place?
Mr. LATONA. It is a different palm. This is the left palm.
Mr. EISENBERG (addressing Mr. Dulles). This is the left palm. The other
two are right palms.
Mr. DULLES. Good, that straightens me out.
Mr. EISENBERG. Actually they were both on the ulnar side of the palm?
Mr. LATONA. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. And they were both taken on what is commonly called the
heel of the palm?
Mr. DULLES. This is a different hand. This is the left hand, and what
we have had so far is the right hand on the palmprints.
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes, sir.
Mr. LATONA. Previously we had two palmprints on the right hand. This
third one is from the left.
Mr. EISENBERG. May this photograph be admitted as 642, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. DULLES. This will be admitted.
(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 642, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, do you have another photograph in your hand
there?
Mr. LATONA. Here I have another photograph, a slight enlargement time
and a half, which is a latent palmprint found on the cardboard box marked "A,"
which is the Commission's Exhibit 641. This is indicated by a red arrow.
Mr. EISENBERG. Let's hold that just a second and get the photograph
admitted.
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Representative BOGGS (addressing Mr. Eisenberg). Where did these boxes
come from?
Mr. EISENBERG. These boxes were located in front of the window from
which the assassin apparently fired. There were three boxes stacked immediately in front
of the window, of which this Exhibit No. 641 was the topmost box, and these were
apparently used as a rest by the assassin for positioning his rifle.
As you can see, there are several other boxes in the room which will be
introduced shortly.
Mr. DULLES. I may say that there was testimony, I don't recall whether
you were here at the time, about some boxes called Rolling Reader, Hale. Do you recall the
testimony on the Rolling Reader?
Representative BOGGS. No.
Mr. DULLES. These boxes were moved from a place on the sixth floor room
where a great many Rolling Reader boxes were placed, and they were put near the window,
and a Rolling Reader--apparently these are cubes, and they are for small children and they
roll them out on the floor and they learn how to read the letters of the alphabet and
other things from these Rolling Readers.
These boxes, because of their nature do you know what the blocks are
made of?
Mr. EISENBERG. No; I don't.
Mr. DULLES. They weren't solid wood but they were light cubes and
therefore presumably these boxes were moved because they were a good deal lighter and
easier to handle than other boxes. Is that consistent with the testimony as you recall it?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes.
Representative BOGGS. Were they full when you got them?
Mr. EISENBERG. You will have to ask Mr. Latona.
Mr. LATONA. They were empty. They had been opened and the books removed
or the contents, whatever it was.
Mr. DULLES. The contents were apparently these cubes, as we were told,
and small children use them and roll them on the floor and then they got the A's and the
B's and the C's.
Representative BOGGS. In the opening process, this would not have any
effect on the fingerprints or the palmprints?
Mr. LATONA. It could. I mean in the sense that somebody else's prints,
the people opening them if they didn't take the time and effort to protect themselves,
they could have left their prints there. I don't know how that was done.
Mr. DULLES. Do you recall whether the testimony shows whether the boxes
were presumably filled when they were originally moved from their normal place in the Book
Depository to the window?
Mr. EISENBERG. I think they were, although I haven't read the
testimony.
Mr. DULLES. I am not sure there is testimony on that point but I think
that is the general assumption.
Mr. EISENBERG. Based on reproduction photographs we have seen.
Mr. LATONA. That is the understanding that we have, that this was the
depository for new material. I think there was new material in these boxes. They were
simply stored there.
Representative BOGGS. They wouldn't have acted as a very good rest had
they been empty.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Back on the record.
Mr. Chairman, may I have this photograph of the latent palmprint
admitted as 643?
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.
(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 643, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you show us where on the box, the box 641, this
latent palmprint appears?
Mr. LATONA. The latent palmprint appears on box A, Commission's Exhibit
641. It has been indicated by a red arrow.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you mark that arrow with an "A"?
Mr. LATONA. The red arrow is being marked "A."
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Mr. EISENBERG. That points to the palmprint of Lee Harvey
Oswald--identified by you as being Lee Harvey Oswald's, is that right?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Let the record show that Mr. Dulles and Mr. Boggs and
Mr. Murray are looking at the actual print marked "A," or marked with an arrow
next to which is written the letter "A."
Mr. MURRAY. I see what appears to be a print; yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Dulles and Mr. Boggs?
Mr. DULLES. I also see what appears to be a print.
Representative BOGGS. I see the same thing.
Mr. DULLES. And it is too big in my opinion to be a fingerprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. (addressing Mr. Latona). Did you prepare a photograph
also of the fingerprint which appears on this box----
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. 641, Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. And is this a true photograph of that fingerprint?
Mr. LATONA. It is.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted, Mr. Chairman, as 644?
Mr. DULLES. This is a fingerprint now?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; which also appears on the box that Mr. Latona just
testified as to, 641.
Mr. DULLES. Has he identified what fingerprint?
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you testify that this was the fingerprint----
Mr. LATONA. No.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you identify this fingerprint as belonging to a
given individual?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. And that individual was?
Mr. LATONA. Lee Harvey Oswald, and it is the right index fingerprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman----
Mr. DULLES. The right index finger.
Mr. EISENBERG. That will be 644.
Mr. DULLES. Admitted.
(The fingerprint referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 644, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. You also have a photograph of a 10-finger card showing
that print encircled?
Mr. LATONA. I do.
Mr. EISENBERG. It is a red circle, and you are handing that to me now?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have that admitted, Mr. Chairman, as 645?
Mr. DULLES. It may be admitted.
(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 645, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. What portion of the finger of Lee Harvey Oswald does
that print represent?
Mr. LATONA. It represents what is referred to as the distal phalanx of
the right index finger.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is the phalanx or the tip furthest away from the
wrist?
Mr. LATONA. The palm.
Mr. EISENBERG. Or from the palm?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is that a full or partial print of the distal phalanx?
Mr. LATONA. That is a partial print.
Mr. EISENBERG. And does it take on the center, or the ulnar or the
radial portion of the phalanx?
Mr. LATONA. No, that takes actually the central portion of the print.
Mr. EISENBERG. The central portion?
Mr. LATONA. The so-called pattern area is disclosed by the latent
print.
Mr. DULLES. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
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Mr. EISENBERG. Could you show us, Mr. Latona, on 641, where the
fingerprint impression that you have just identified is?
Mr. LATONA. That appears on one of the ends of the box indicated by a
red arrow.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you mark that arrow, "B"?
Mr. LATONA. Marked "B."
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Dulles, would you care to take a look at that?
Mr. LATONA. Here you are going to see several clear prints but it is
only one that we have identified, and that is the one directly under the arrow.
Mr. DULLES. I see four there, or five.
Mr. LATONA. It is the little one here in the middle, right here.
Mr. DULLES. Is it this one here, right there?
Mr. LATONA. No; the one next to it.
Mr. DULLES. That one there?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. DULLES. What are all these other fingerprints?
Mr. LATONA. They are all other fingerprints.
Mr. EISENBERG. There were a total of 13 identifiable prints on the box,
did you say?
Mr. LATONA. That is right. Those are not Oswald's prints.
Representative BOGGS. Those may have been other people opening the box?
Mr. DULLES. The box was carried around probably.
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. DULLES. When it was first put there and moved.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you put your finger on that box, Mr. Latona, in
the way that the finger was placed?
Mr. DULLES. How do you think he was carrying that box?
Mr. LATONA. I don't know.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is your finger now placed in the way the finger was
placed to create the impression? It is pointing with the fingernail towards the arrow and
in the same line as the arrow, with just the tip of the finger on the box.
Mr. DULLES. Everybody seems to have held that box.
Mr. LATONA. It is a little one right there.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Murray, do you want to take a look?
Representative BOGGS. You have not identified any of these others?
Mr. LATONA. No.
Mr. EISENBERG. Let the record show that Commissioners Dulles and Boggs
and Mr. Murray are looking at that fingerprint, and have apparently satisfied
themselves----
Mr. MURRAY. The portion shown to me appears to be part of a
fingerprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. They have satisfied themselves that the print is on the
box.
Now, therefore, to recapitulate: You found on this carton 641 the left
palmprint and the right index fingerprint of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. LATONA. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. One other thing. Getting back to the palmprint, marked
"A," could you show us how a hand would lie to produce that print?
Mr. LATONA. In the position of the palm pointing towards the arrow.
Mr. EISENBERG. Pointing towards the arrow, that is, in the opposite
direction that the arrow points?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. But in the same line as the arrow. Your hand is parallel
with the line but covering that completely?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. And although it covers it, I would say that the arrow
would fall in the midline of the palm, is that right?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, did you prepare a chart showing some of
the points which led you to the conclusion that the latent palmprint found on 641 was
identical with the inked palmprint submitted to you by the Dallas police?
Mr. LATONA. I had charts prepared; yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. These were prepared under your supervision?
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Mr. LATONA. They were.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have that chart admitted as 646?
Mr. DULLES. It will be admitted.
(The chart referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 646, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. What is the magnification?
Mr. LATONA. Approximately eight times.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is the magnification equal on both sides?
Mr. LATONA. Both sides; the inked palmprint and latent palmprint both
the same.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is that true of all of the charts that you have
submitted and will be submitting this morning?
Mr. LATONA. That is true.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, could you point out some of these points? I
think in the interest of time it would be better if you took several of the points instead
of all 13 points you have marked.
Mr. LATONA. I believe you will find this will be a little bit more
difficult to see in view of the fact that the ridge formations are cut up a little bit
more. However----
Mr. DULLES. Would you put that over there. You have identified 13
points of similarity?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; 13 have been drawn but there are quite a few others.
Mr. EISENBERG. You have marked 13 in other words, is that it, Mr.
Latona?
Mr. LATONA. Sir?
Mr. EISENBERG. You have marked 13?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. DULLES. On this exhibit?
Mr. LATONA. That is right. Here, for example, is an easy one to show
up, this point No. 1 as compared to point No. 1 here, and its relationship to point No. 2,
the relationship of point No. 2 to point No. 3.
Looking over here we find that there is a relationship between points
Nos. 1 and 2, one, two, three, four, five, one, two, three, four, five.
Then there's a relationship of one ridge between point l--or rather
between point 2 and point 3, both points going in the same general direction.
Point No. 3 is below point No. 2. Also the point No. 2 is what is
referred to as a short ending ridge. We look over here and we see that point No. 2 is a
short ending ridge.
Point No. 3 is below that. Then we notice that there is another point
which is one point removed---one ridge removed--from point No. 3 which we have not
charted, which shows up very definitely in that position there. Then there is point No. 4,
which is another piece of a ridge, point No. 4 here.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, when you testify in court do you generally
discuss every marked point?
Mr. LATONA. No.
Mr. EISENBERG. Just the more salient points?
Mr. LATONA. Just to give a general idea as to how the comparisons are
made, more or less for demonstration purposes, because the actual comparison is the same,
the relationship is a determination of the relationship with the others, and just by an
examination, that would be borne out if each and every point was gone into in detail.
Mr. EISENBERG. With you permission, Mr. Chairman, I would like to move
on to the next chart since we do have witnesses waiting who have to return to New York.
Mr. DULLES. Right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you prepare a chart, Mr. Latona, of the
fingerprint----
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Which was found on the carton 641?
Mr. LATONA. Here is the chart, which is of the right index fingerprint
of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was this prepared by you or under your supervision?
Mr. LATONA. They were. The enlargement here is approximately 10 times
both in the inked print and in the latent print.
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Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have this admitted as 647?
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.
(The chart referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 647, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Would you discuss again just a few of the more salient
points, Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. Here, starting first of all with the apparent pattern type
itself, it is readily discernable. You can see that these are what we term whorl-type
prints. This point No. 1, for example, is a small ridge which terminates at this point
which has been indicated by the figure No. 1.
It is related by being joined onto point No. 2, which is the end of the
black line going upward. Then one ridge to the left, one ridge removed and to the left and
a little bit above is point No. 3. Here the same thing occurs in the inked print.
Point No. 4 is related to point No. 3 by one ridge removed and is
upward and one ridge to the left.
Mr. DULLES. And similarly you have identified up to 10 points of
similarity?
Mr. LATONA. These you can see rather easily that they appear.
Mr. EISENBERG. If there are no further questions on the carton 641 I
will move on to another exhibit.
I now hand you a carton, somewhat larger in area than the 641 which we
were just discussing, with various markings on it which I won't discuss, but which is
marked Box "D" in red pencil at the upper left-hand corner of the bottom of the
box.
Are you familiar with this carton, Mr. Latona?
Mr. DULLES. Has that been admitted?
Mr. EISENBERG. It has not so far been admitted.
Mr. LATONA. This Box D, I received this along with Box A for purposes
of examining for latent prints.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was that examined by you or under your supervision for
that purpose?
Mr. LATONA. Yes, it was.
Mr. EISENBERG. When was that received?
Mr. LATONA. That was received on the 27th of November 1963.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have this admitted as 648?
Mr. DULLES. What date?
Mr. LATONA. 27th.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is 5 days after the assassination?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted as 648?
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.
(The box referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 648, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. DULLES. Can you identify it in some further way? I think there are
some markings on here.
Mr. EISENBERG. There is "Box D." It is a little hard to read.
It says "1 40 N TH&DO"---
Mr. DULLES. "New People and Progress."
Mr. EISENBERG. Apparently referring to the name of the textbook. This
is not a Rolling Reader carton.
Mr. DULLES. No.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, when you received this box, could you tell
whether it had been previously examined for latent fingerprints?
Mr. LATONA. A portion of it had.
Mr. EISENBERG. And can you tell us what portion had been?
Mr. LATONA. The bottom evidently, because a piece had been cut out.
Mr. EISENBERG. You are pointing to a place on the bottom of the box
which is to the left of the point at which I have affixed the sticker "Commission
Exhibit No. 648," immediately to the left of that point?
Mr. LATONA. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was that portion of the box given to you?
Mr. LATONA Yes, it was.
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Mr. EISENBERG. With the box?
Mr. LATONA. At the time we got the box.
Mr. EISENBERG. I think I have that.
I now hand you what appears to be a portion of a cardboard carton and a
piece of tape with various writings, included among which is "From top of box Oswald
apparently sat on to fire gun."
Do you recognize this piece of paper, Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. Yes, I do. This is a piece of paper that evidently had been
cut from the box.
Mr. EISENBERG. Does that fit into the box?
Mr. LATONA. It does.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have this admitted as 649?
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as 649.
(The piece of carton referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 649,
and received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did you find any identifiable prints on the
cardboard carton 648?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; in addition to this one which has been cut out and
which had been covered by a piece of lifting tape, there were, two fingerprints developed
in addition to that one.
Mr. EISENBERG. Two identifiable fingerprints?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Palmprints?
Mr. LATONA. No; they were fingerprints.
Mr. EISENBERG. I mean were there any palmprints?
Mr. LATONA. There were no palmprints.
Mr. EISENBERG. How did you process this box?
Mr. LATONA. By the use of iodine fumes and silver nitrate solution.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you find evidence of processing prior to your
receipt apart from the exhibit which is now 649?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; this particular area which has been cut out had been
processed with powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was there powder on other areas of the box?
Mr. LATONA. I don't believe there was.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you identify any of the prints on the carton 648 as
belonging to a specific individual?
Mr. LATONA. The two fingerprints which were developed on Commission
Exhibit 648 by silver nitrate are not identified as anyone's, but the print which appears
on the piece which was cut out has been identified.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is 649?
Mr. LATONA. Of Exhibit 648--which is Exhibit 649----
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes?
Mr. LATONA. Which came from Exhibit 648 has been identified as a
palm-print of Harvey Lee Oswald, the right palmprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is Lee Harvey Oswald, Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. That is right, Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, can you tell how this was developed,
this print on 649?
Mr. LATONA. The appearance is it was developed with black powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. You testified before concerning the aging of
fingerprints. Considering the material on which this print was developed, 649, do you
think you could form an opinion, any opinion at all, concerning the freshness or staleness
of this print?
Mr. LATONA. Bearing in mind the fact that this is an absorbent
material, and realizing, of course, that a print when it is left on a material of this
type it starts to soak in. Now, the reason that we in the FBI do not use powder is because
of the fact that in a short period of time the print will soak in so completely that there
won't be any moisture left.
Accordingly when you brush powder across there won't be anything
developed.
Under circumstances, bearing in mind that here the box was powdered,
and a print was developed with powder, the conclusion is that this is comparatively a
fresh print. Otherwise, it would not have developed.
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We know, too, that we developed two other fingerprints on this by
chemicals. How long a time had elapsed since the time this print was placed on there until
the time that it would have soaked in so that the resulting examination would have been
negative I don't know, but that could not have been too long.
Mr. EISENBERG. When you say "not too long," would you say not
3 weeks, or not 3 days, or not 3 hours?
Mr. LATONA. Very definitely I'd say not 3 days. I'd say not 3 weeks.
Mr. EISENBERG. And not 3 days, either?
Mr. LATONA. No; I don't believe so, because I don't think that the
print on here that is touched on a piece of cardboard will stay on a piece of cardboard
for 3 days.
Mr. EISENBERG. Would you bring that any closer?
Mr. LATONA. I am afraid I couldn't come any closer.
Mr. EISENBERG. 3 days?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. That would be the outermost limit that you can testify
concerning?
Mr. LATONA. We have, run some tests, and usually a minimum of 24 hours
on a material of this kind, depending upon how heavy the sweat was, to try to say within a
24-hour period would be a guess on my part.
Mr. EISENBERG. I am not sure I understand your reference to a minimum
of 24 hours.
Mr. LATONA. We have conducted tests with various types of materials as
to how long it could be before we would not develop a latent print.
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes?
Mr. LATONA. Assuming that the same print was left on an object or a
series of similar prints were left on an object, and powdering them, say, at intervals of
every 4 hours or so, we would fail to develop a latent print of that particular type on
that particular surface, say, within a 24-hour period.
Mr. EISENBERG. So that is a maximum of 24 hours?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. You would not care, you say, though----
Mr. LATONA. No.
Mr. EISENBERG. To employ that here, but your experiments produced a
maximum time of 24 hours.
Mr. LATONA. Bear that out; yes. Like I say, undoubtedly this print was
left on there----between the time that the print was left and the time that it was
powdered could not have been too long a time. Otherwise, the print would not have
developed with the clarity that it did.
Mr. EISENBERG. You identified that, I believe, as the right palmprint
of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. What portion of the right palm was that, Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. It happens to be the center part of the palm close to the
wrist.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you show how the palm must have lain on the 649, the
part of the 648 carton, to produce that print?
Mr. LATONA. It would have been placed on there in this fashion.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, you are pointing so that your hand is parallel with
the long axis of the box, and at right angles to the short axis?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. And just the bottom of the palm rests on the box, isn't
that correct?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, before going to this fingerprint or this palmprint
rather, Mr. Latona, we have palmprints, a palmprint here on this 649, and a finger and a
palm on 641, and those are the only identified prints on these two objects.
Is it possible that Lee Harvey Oswald could have touched these two
cartons at other places without leaving identifiable prints?
Mr. LATONA. He could have.
Mr. EISENBERG. And how would that come about?
Mr. LATONA. Simply by the fact that he did not have any material on his
finger at the time he touched the box.
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Mr. EISENBERG. So that you can touch a carton at one point and leave a
print, and at another point not, is that right?
Mr. LATONA. Very definitely, that is true.
Mr. EISENBERG. And when you say he doesn't have any material, how would
that come about? Will he have used his material up, or not produced material with the
particular finger?
Mr. LATONA. He could have used it up and failed to produce it fast
enough to have left anything at the time he touched that.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is it uncommon or common for you to find an object which
a person has touched more than once but only left one identifiable print?
Mr. LATONA. It is very common.
Mr. EISENBERG. It is common?
Mr. LATONA. Especially in, for example, the reading of a letter, a long
letter where the person would run his finger and index finger down the edges. You might
find prints at the top and then you don't find any at the bottom.
Mr. EISENBERG. Of course, I am not asking you to draw an inference
whether or not Oswald touched the box in more than one place, but I just want to explore
whether he could have touched the box in more than one place----
Mr. LATONA. Yes; he could.
Mr. EISENBERG. And not left a second imprint?
Mr. LATONA. He very definitely could have and not left one.
Mr. DULLES. May I add for the record, Commission Exhibit 648 apparently
contained books of Scott Foresman and Co., from Scott, Foresman & Co., "Building
for Today, Pioneering for Tomorrow."
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did you take a photograph of the lift, or
the print rather, which we see in 649?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. And this is an accurate photograph?
Mr. LATONA. It is, it is a true reproduction of the print which appears
on Commission Exhibit 649 and it is enlarged about a time and a half.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have this admitted as 650?
Mr. DULLES. It will be admitted.
(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 650, for
identification and received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you take a photograph of the known palmprint and
make a red circle around it, as you had in previous cases?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. To show what portion of the palm of Oswald that was?
Mr. LATONA. Showing a portion of the right palm.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have that admitted?
Mr. DULLES. It will be admitted as 651.
(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 651, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. By the way, Mr. Latona, on 649 there seems to be a
scotch tape or cellophane tape over the fingerprint, is that right?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, apparently there was no attempt at a lift being
made here?
Mr. LATONA. No. This evidently was a print which was developed directly
on the paper itself. The employing of that adhesive material like scotch tape was to
protect the print itself.
Had they tried to lift that up I am afraid they would have spoiled that
because they would have lifted the fibers of the cardboard along with it.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is that why, you think, they didn't lift it?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; very definitely.
Mr. EISENBERG. By the way, did the Dallas police take photographs of
the lift which we had earlier, the lift which was apparently taken from Exhibit 139, or to
put the question--actually I am not interested in whether they took photographs of the
lift; do you know whether they took photographs of the print?
Mr. LATONA. I don't know.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is it normal to take a photograph of a print before it
is lifted?
Mr. LATONA. If it is fairly visible; yes.
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Mr. EISENBERG. What is the purpose of the lift, as opposed to a
photograph reproducing the print?
Mr. LATONA. The purpose of the lift is simply to insure the probability
of getting a good record of the print, because a lot of times when you photograph a print,
you have to go through the process of having it developed and then printed and at the same
time by lifting it you may, that would be an additional security that you are getting the
best results.
Then you take your choice as to which result turns out the best.
Mr. EISENBERG. So these are alternative routes?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Lifting and photographing?
Mr. LATONA. That is right. Well, primarily our recommendation in the
FBI is simply every procedure to photograph and then lift. Then you choose the one which
you feel gives you the best results in your final photograph.
Mr. EISENBERG. Returning to the palmprint on 649, taken from the carton
648, did you make up a chart showing some of the points----
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Which led you to your conclusion that that print was the
print of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. LATONA. Yes, I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. And was that prepared by you or under your supervision?
Mr. LATONA. Prepared by me under my supervision.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this chart admitted as 652?
Mr. DULLES. It will be admitted as Exhibit 652.
(The chart referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 652, for
identification and received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Again, without going into detail, Mr. Latona, could you
show us some of the more salient points which led you to your conclusion that the print on
649 was the palmprint of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. LATONA. The easiest points visible here, right offhand, point No.
11 which is a black line that goes upward and its relationship to point No. 10. This is
known as the short ending ridge as is seen here. Its relation to point No. 8. Point No. 11
is a black line going upward. Point No. 8 is a black line going downward and there are
one, two, three, ridges which are between the two. Over here in the latent print you find
No. 11 which is a black line going upward. It is a short line to the other end of the
point No. 10, and three ridges intervene between that and point No. 8, which is going
downward.
One ridge to the right and going in an upward direction is point No.
7--7, 8, 9, 10, 11.
Mr. DULLES. And you identified 11 points of similarity?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. DULLES. Between the inked palmprint of Lee Harvey Oswald and this
palmprint taken from this cardboard carton?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. DULLES. What is this white line that goes up through each?
Mr. LATONA. This is a crease in the center of the palm, a flexure
crease of that area.
Mr. DULLES. The palm did not touch the carton at that point?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. DULLES. And those two creases are in approximately the same
location in the photograph and in the latent palmprint?
Mr. LATONA. Very definitely.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, I now hand you two further cartons, which
are labeled Box B and Box C, the B box being a 10 Rolling Reader, and the C box being also
a Scott, Foresman box with printing on the back, "The Three Pre-primers,"
apparently the name of the book contained in this box.
Mr. DULLES. Primers.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did you examine Box B, which I have handed
to you, to determine whether it had on it any identifiable latent fingerprints?
Mr. LATONA. Yes, sir; I did.
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Page 42
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I would like that box admitted as 653.
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.
(Commission Exhibit No. 653 was marked and received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. How many identifiable prints did you find on this
carton?
Mr. LATONA. There were seven fingerprints and two palmprints developed
on Commission Exhibit 653.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is, identifiable prints?
Mr. LATONA. Identifiable prints.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you identify any of those prints as belonging to a
specific person?
Mr. LATONA. I did not.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have 654 marked, Box C, Mr. Chairman? Did you also
examine Box C?
Mr. LATONA. Box C, yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have that admitted as 654?
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Commission Exhibit 654.
(Commission Exhibit No. 654 was marked and received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you find any latent identifiable prints on 654?
Mr. LATONA. I found two fingerprints and one palmprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you identify them as belonging to a specific
individual?
Mr. LATONA. I did not identify them.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, did you attempt to identify them with Lee Harvey
Oswald's known prints?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; and they are not Lee Harvey Oswald's print.
Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive cartons 653 and 654?
Mr. LATONA. I received cartons 653 and 654 November 27.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is, with the earlier cartons, Boxes A and D, which
have received Commission exhibit numbers?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG Had they been processed? Could you tell whether they had
been processed for latent fingerprints?
Mr. LATONA. I couldn't tell whether they had been or not.
Mr. EISENBERG. You could not tell?
Mr. LATONA. Could not tell. They had the appearance of not having been
processed.
Mr. EISENBERG. How did you process them in your laboratory, Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. Iodine fumes and chemicals.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did the prints react to the iodine fumes at all?
Mr. LATONA. No.
Mr. EISENBERG. Just to the chemicals?
Mr. LATONA. The silver nitrate prints which were developed.
Mr. DULLES. Do you mean that the prints were of such a caliber and
character that you couldn't make anything out of them, or that you couldn't identify them
with any known----
Mr. LATONA. They are not identical with those that they have been
compared with.
Mr. DULLES. But the prints themselves were perfectly good prints?
Mr. LATONA. Oh, yes; the prints are good but they are not Lee Harvey
Oswald's.
Mr. EISENBERG. At any subsequent time have you attempted to identify
any of these prints on the boxes as belonging to any person other than Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. And how did you proceed with this attempt?
Mr. LATONA. An effort was made to locate the fingerprints of all people
employed in that building in which these cartons were found, on the basis of the names and
birth dates which were furnished, and we located the fingerprints of 16 of those people
who work in that building.
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes?
Mr. LATONA. And the fingerprints of those 16 employees were compared
with all of the latent prints which were developed on these boxes. They do not belong to
any of those 16 people.
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Mr. DULLES. May I ask for my information here, Mr. Eisenberg, were all
of these cartons, including the last two admitted in evidence, were they found in the
general area of the sixth floor of the building from which it is believed the shot was
fired?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; Mr. Chairman. I believe that the two boxes which
were just admitted into evidence as 653 and 654 were two of the three boxes which were
apparently used as a rest by the assassin. They were apparently either the two bottom
boxes, or there might have been an arrangement such as that one was stacked on top of the
other, and the box earlier admitted into evidence was some evidence of that.
Mr. DULLES. And in any event, does our evidence indicate that these
boxes were moved from their normal position on the sixth floor to a new position near the
window?
Mr. EISENBERG. Again I believe it does indicate that at least the 10
Rolling Reader carton was moved. There was some other movement of boxes that morning, and
I think they are still in the process of tracing down all of the movements.
Mr. DULLES. Thank you.
Mr. EISENBERG. I have a letter, Mr. Latona, from Mr. Hoover to Mr.
Rankin, the general counsel of our Commission, setting forth the names of the employees of
the TSBD whose prints were compared in this recent attempt you mentioned. Would you
recognize the names?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I would because I believe that report is based on my
report.
Mr. EISENBERG. If I read the name could you verify whether these
individuals were the ones whose prints you checked out against the latents?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Haddon Spurgeon Aiken?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Jack Charles Cason?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Warren Cason?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Jack Edwin Doughterty?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Charles Douglas Givens?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mary Madeline Hollis?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. James Earl Jarman?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Spaulden Earnest Jones?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Herbert L. Junker?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Billy Nolan Lovelady?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Joe R. Molina?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Edward Shields?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Joyce Maurine Stansberg?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Roy Sansom Truly?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Lloyd R. Viles?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Troy Eugene West?
Mr. LATONA. Correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now as I understand it, these employees were not
selected because any particular suspicion fell on them, but merely because of all the
employees, those were the ones whose cards you knew you had in your files?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
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Mr. EISENBERG And it was just accidental----
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. That those employees were picked?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. There is no inference that there was any suspicion
whatsoever attaching to any of these employees?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. DULLES. We believe all these employees had access to the sixth
floor of the building?
Mr. EISENBERG. We are still looking into that question. This is a
recent effort on your part?
Mr. LATONA Yes.
Mr. DULLES. Is that letter to be admitted as evidence or not?
Mr. EISENBERG. I think not----
Mr. DULLES. Right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Since I don't think the witness could identify the
actual letter.
Mr. DULLES. It will be in the files, though?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; it is a Commission document in the files.
Mr. Latona, I believe that out of the total number of six prints you
have identified today as being Lee Harvey Oswald's, four were palmprints, is that correct?
Mr. LATONA. Three.
Mr. EISENBERG. Three?
Mr. LATONA. Three, two rights and one left, three palms and three
fingers.
Mr. EISENBERG. There was a palm on----
Mr. LATONA. The bag.
Mr. EISENBERG. A palm on the weapon?
Mr. LATONA. One on the gun and on this box.
Mr. EISENBERG. Four and two then?
Mr. LATONA. Three.
Mr. EISENBERG. There was a palm on each box?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is two palms?
Mr. LATONA. One off the gun.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is three palms, and the palm on the wrapping paper
bag. Here is the wrapping paper bag.
Mr. LATONA. One palm and one finger.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is four palms all together?
Mr. LATONA. Four palms, okay.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is that correct?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, is the proportion of recovered fingerprints here an
unusual one in your estimation? That is, we usually hear about fingerprints rather than
palmprints, whereas here we have four palm and two finger prints. Is there anything
unusual in this?
Mr. LATONA. Well, in that manner there is because--well no, I guess
not. It is just as logical to assume that a person will leave a palmprint as a
fingerprint. It depends upon primarily the way he handles it. Objects of this type being
so large you can probably expect to get a palmprint.
Mr. DULLES. And what he is handling?
Mr. LATONA. That is right. On the other hand, if the object is small
there is probably no reason for the palm to touch it. For example, in a rearview mirror;
ordinarily on a rearview mirror of these stolen cars we process you get mostly
fingerprints.
On the other hand if you get back into the trunk, the chances of
something of a large nature, a stolen wheel, or something of that type, you will get
finger and palm prints. Cartons like this, where you have to use both hands to pick it up
because of its weight, the probability is that you will get a palmprint as well as a
fingerprint.
Mr. EISENBERG. Would the same thing be true of a heavy rifle?
Mr. LATONA. Sure, very definitely.
Mr. EISENBERG. And if the bag contained a heavy object inside?
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Mr. LATONA. That is right it would take more than just the finger area
of the hand to hold on to it.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did you prepare at my request a series of
photographs for transmission by me to the New York City Police Department--- photographs
of finger and palm prints found on some of the evidence we have been looking at?
Mr. LATONA. I furnished you photographs of all of the remaining
unidentified latent prints from these cartons.
Mr. EISENBERG. And also did you furnish me a photograph--just of the
remaining unidentified prints?
Mr. LATONA. No; including the ones which I identified.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you also furnish me with a photograph of the two
prints you identified--which parenthetically were the only two identifiable prints--on the
brown wrapping paper bag?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Which is Exhibit 142. And of the lift from the weapon
139?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. And you also furnished me with photographs of the finger
and palmprints of Lee Harvey Oswald----
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. As transmitted to you by the Dallas office of the FBI?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you identify these as the photographs you furnished
to me?
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Have you identified the envelope marked "two photos
Box D"?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I have.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have that admitted as 655?
Mr. DULLES. Yes.
(Commission Exhibit No. 655 was marked and received in evidence.)
Mr. DULLES. I think there ought to be some cross-identification inside
the envelope. Because obviously if you take that envelope and put anything in it, we ought
to have the others identified properly.
Mr. EISENBERG. There are two photographs within this. Let the record
show there are two photographs within this envelope, marked "7" and
"13," and I believe these are the only photographs so marked. Each photograph is
marked with an individual number, so these are the only two photographs in the entire set
marked "7" and "13."
Mr. DULLES. Excellent.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now I have an envelope marked "10 photos Box
A." Have you identified these photographs Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I have.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have these photographs admitted as group 656?
Mr. DULLES. It shall be.
(Commission Exhibit No. 656 was marked and received in evidence.)
Mr. DULLES. How many enclosures in that?
Mr. EISENBERG. There are 10 enclosures and numbered as follows: 25, 26,
27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 34, 35.
Mr. DULLES. There is no 33?
Mr. EISENBERG. No, sir.
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Commission Exhibit----
Mr. EISENBERG. 656.
Mr. DULLES. That is 656 with the enclosures as noted and identified.
Mr. EISENBERG. I have here photographs--an envelope labeled
"Photographs, Fingerprints, and Palmprints, Lee Harvey Oswald." These are
accurate reproductions?
Mr. LATONA. They are.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, with your permission I will later put
sub-numbers on these.
Mr. DULLES. Seven numbers with seven enclosures?
Mr. EISENBERG. No, sir; three enclosures.
Mr. DULLES. With three enclosures?
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Mr. EISENBERG. And I will number the 10-print card--first may I have
the envelope with the photographs admitted as 657?
Mr. DULLES. The envelope shall be admitted with----
Mr. EISENBERG. I will subnumber the cards with your permission at a
later time.
Mr. DULLES. How many enclosures in it, three?
Mr. EISENBERG. Three. I will subnumber the 10-print card 657-A, the
right palm 657-B, and left palm 657-0.
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.
(Commission Exhibits Nos. 657-A, 657-B, and 657-C were marked, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. I have an envelope with photos marked "one photo of
lift 'underside of gun barrel.'" Is this a photograph which you provided me?
Mr. LATONA. It is.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted as 658, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. DULLES. 658 with how many enclosures?
Mr. EISENBERG. Just one.
Mr. DULLES. Just one enclosure.
(Commission Exhibit No. 658 was marked, and received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, an envelope marked "two photos brown bag
(wrapping paper)."
This is the two photos, Mr. Latona, which you gave to me?
Mr. LATONA. It is.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have that admitted as 659, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as 659 with one enclosure in the
envelope. Is it one or two?
Mr. EISENBERG. There are two enclosures.
Mr. DULLES. With two in the envelope.
Mr. EISENBERG. One has printing on it and with your permission I will
mark that "659-A," and the other has no printing and I will mark it
"659-B."
Mr. DULLES. It will be so admitted.
(Commission Exhibits Nos. 659-A and 659-B were marked, and received in
evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Now an envelope marked "eight photos Box B."
This is, Mr. Latona, the photographs you provided me?
Mr. LATONA. It is.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted as Exhibit 660, Mr. Chairman,
collectively?
Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Commission Exhibit No. 660 with----
Mr. EISENBERG. With eight enclosures----
Mr. DULLES. Eight enclosures.
Mr. EISENBERG. Marked "15"--the next one has 17 scratched out
and also 18 appearing on it--19 for the third enclosure, 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24.
Mr. DULLES. With the numbers as indicated in the record.
(Commission Exhibit No. 660 was marked, and received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. And finally an envelope of the same size, marked
"three photos, Box C." Mr. Latona, these are the photos you gave me?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; they are.
Mr. EISENBERG. May I have these admitted as 661, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. DULLES. It will be admitted as Exhibit 661, with how many
enclosures?
Mr. EISENBERG. There are three enclosures.
Mr. DULLES. And the three enclosures; are they identified in any way?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes, sir; they are subnumbered 10, 11 and 12.
Mr. DULLES. With the subnumbers 10, 11 and 12.
(Commission Exhibit No 661 was marked, and received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Are all these photographs accurate reproductions of the
prints appearing on the objects whose name is on the front of the envelope in which the
photographs are stored?
Mr LATONA. They are.
Mr. EISENBERG. They were taken by you or under your supervision?
Mr. LATONA. They were.
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Mr. EISENBERG. Can you identify by number, Mr. Latona, the photographs
of box A which contain prints of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. LATONA. I will have to do it in a negative fashion and tell you
that it is not 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, or 35.
Mr. EISENBERG. Then it would be No. 25 which is in that sequence?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. And did you mention 34?
Mr. LATONA. I did not.
Mr. EISENBERG. So 34 would also be an identified print in that
sequence?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you print anything on the back of these photographs,
Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. At the time I gave you the photographs I marked nothing on
them.
Mr. EISENBERG. So that any printing here would have been put on
subsequent to the time you prepared them?
Mr. LATONA. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. Referring specifically to a photograph I take at random,
is No. 35, is this your handwriting?
Mr. LATONA. It is not.
Mr. EISENBERG. None of the printing appearing on the back of that
photograph?
Mr. LATONA. It is not.
Mr. EISENBERG. Let the record state that, as will be dealt with later,
this printing was put on by Mr. Mandella of the New York Police Department. Now in the
case of box D, of which there are two photographs, 7 and 13, could you state which was the
photograph of Oswald's print?
Mr. LATONA. Thirteen.
Mr. EISENBERG. Just to reiterate, in no case did you put writing on the
back of these photographs?
Mr. LATONA. I did not.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did anyone else in the FBI examine the
objects which you have been discussing today----
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. To determine whether the fingerprints of Lee Harvey
Oswald appeared on them?
Mr. LATONA. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. What was that person's name?
Mr. LATONA. His name is Ronald G. Wittmus.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was his examination conducted independently of yours?
Mr. LATONA. It was.
Mr. EISENBERG. Who conducted the examination first?
Mr. LATONA. In the case of the wrapping paper, I did. In the case of
the boxes I believe he did.
Mr. EISENBERG. And the rifle?
Mr. LATONA. I conducted the examination of the rifle.
Mr. EISENBERG. The lift from the rifle?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; directly.
Mr. EISENBERG. And the----
Mr. LATONA. Brown wrapping paper.
Mr. EISENBERG. In any case when you conducted your examination first
did you tell Wittmus of your conclusions?
Mr. LATONA. I did not.
Mr. EISENBERG. When Mr. Wittmus conducted his examination first did he
tell you of his conclusions?
Mr. LATONA. No.
Mr. EISENBERG. Were his conclusions the same as yours?
Mr. LATONA. Ultimately, yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. When you say, "ultimately"?
Mr. LATONA. When the whole thing was completed.
Mr. DULLES. There was no difference of views between you at any stage?
Mr. LATONA. No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did anyone who examined these various objects--as to
which
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you have testified---in the FBI laboratory come to a conclusion different from the one you
did?
Mr. LATONA. They did not.
Mr. EISENBERG. Were there any identifications of fingerprints as being
Lee Harvey Oswald's in addition to the ones which you have given us?
Mr. LATONA. There were a number of identifications effected with latent
prints developed on personal effects.
Mr. EISENBERG. No, sir; on the material you have testified as to today.
Mr. LATONA. No; there were no others.
Mr. EISENBERG. Were any prints found--were the three fragmentary prints
found on the rifle, which were not sufficient for purposes of identification, in any way
inconsistent with the prints of Oswald which you found?
Mr. LATONA. Very definitely, no. I might point out that actually what
was visible was consistent, in the sense that even though there were no ridge formations
available for purposes of making a positive conclusion, the indications were that the
pattern types were there, were consistent with the pattern types which were on the hands
of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. DULLES. As far as you know the conclusions of the Texas police
authorities who examined these objects, were your conclusions the same as theirs, or was
there any differences between you on this subject?
Mr. LATONA. Frankly, I don't know what there conclusion was.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
Mr. DULLES. Have you any questions, Mr. Murray?
Mr. MURRAY. I have not.
Mr. DULLES. I have no further questions. Thank you very much indeed,
Mr. Latona. You have been very helpful. I have learned a great deal myself.
Mr. LATONA. Thank you very much.
Arthur Mandella and accompanied by Lt. Joseph A. Mooney
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