Frank Reilly
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TESTIMONY OF FRANK E. REILLY beginning at 6H227...

    The testimony of Frank E. Reilly was taken at 2 p.m., on April 8, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

    Mr. BALL. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before the Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes; I do.
    Mr. BALL. Will you state your name, please?
    Mr. REILLY. Frank E. Reilly.
    Mr. BALL. What is your address?
    Mr. REILLY. 3309 Thibet, T-h-i-b-e-t [spelling].
    Mr. BALL. What is your occupation?
    Mr. REILLY. Electrician, Union Terminal.
    Mr. BALL. You received a letter from the Commission, didn't you?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BALL. Advising you that your deposition was to be taken?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BALL. Where were you born and raised?
    Mr. REILLY. I was born in Fort Worth.
    Mr. BALL. How many years ago ?
    Mr. REILLY. I left over there when I was 17 and I am 70 now.
    Mr. BALL. What kind of education do you have?
    Mr. REILLY. Not too good-I went through the ninth grade.
    Mr. BALL. What have you done since then, generally, just in a general way--- you don't need to go into great detail?
    Mr. REILLY. I've been with the Terminal Co. since 1916.
    Mr. BALL. You have been a railroad man all of your life, then?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, were you working for the Union Terminal?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. What were you doing that day?
    Mr. REILLY. We had been working on the mail conveyor up close to the other end.
    Mr. BALL. What was that?
    Mr. REILLY. Mail conveyor.
    Mr. BALL. Who were you working with?
    Mr. REILLY. I Was by myself---it was on a Friday.
    Mr. BALL. About noon did you go down to someplace near Elm Street?

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    Mr. REILLY. I went over to Mr. Holland's shop and then we went up there together to see the parade.
    Mr. BALL. You went over to Mr. Holland's office?
    Mr. REILLY. Mr. Holland's shop.
    Mr. BALL. What is Mr. Holland's occupation?
    Mr. REILLY. He is a signal supervisor.
    Mr. BALL. For the Union Terminal Co.?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BALL. Then, where did you go?
    Mr. REILLY. We taken a walk up through the overpass right there.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you stand on the overpass?
    Mr. REILLY. Well, we went over to the railing and stood there.
    Mr. BALL. And with reference to what streets---were you standing over Elm. over Main, or over Commerce?
    Mr. REILLY. Well, you mean when this parade came down?
    Mr. BALL. Yes.
    Mr. REILLY. We were between them.
    Mr. BALL. Between what streets?
    Mr. REILLY. Elm and Main.
    Mr. BALL. I have a map here which has been used in the deposition of another witness, but it gives some idea of the location there--this is north--this shows the corner of Elm and Houston Streets.
    Mr. REILLY. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BALL. And it shows where Elm turns and goes under the railroad, the overpass.
    Mr. REILLY. We were between the two.
    Mr. BALL. Will you take this pen and this is Elm and here is Main, and make a mark and show me where you were standing?
    Mr. REILLY. This is the overpass right here?
    Mr. BALL. Yes; this is the overpass.
    Mr. REILLY. We was between these two streets--there was big banisters up there and it was about like that, I guess.
    Mr. BALL. We will put a mark there.
    Mr. REILLY. (The witness Reilly marked the instrument as requested by Counsel Ball.)
    Mr. BALL. And I will put on that position "7"---you were standing there when the motorcade Came along?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. Who was standing there with you?
    Mr. REILLY. I believe it was Mr. Dodd and Skinney.
    Mr. BALL. And what are his initials?
    Mr. REILLY. Dick Dodd.
    Mr. BALL. That's R. C. Dodd, isn't it?
    Mr. REILLY. I think so.
    Mr. BALL. And what is his position with the Union Terminal Co.?
    Mr. REILLY. Foreman of the laborers.
    Mr. BALL. Who else was with him?
    Mr. REILLY. These two fellows here were standing out there, but I don't know their names?
    Mr. BALL. What are their names?
    Mr. REILLY. I don't know their names--I don't even associate with them.
    Mr. BALL. What about Mr. Holland?
    Mr. REILLY. We were together.
    Mr. BALL. S. M. Holland was there?
    Mr. REILLY. We were together.
    Mr. BALL. Holland and Dodd and you?
    Mr. REILLY. And me.
    Mr. BALL. Then, there were how many other men?
    Mr. REILLY. Well, there were three or four-but I don't know who they were.
    Mr. BALL. You have seen two of them here, haven't you?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes; two of them out there.
    Mr. BALL. And you know one's name is---

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    Mr. REILLY. I wouldn't know it---their name---I don't even know their name only by seeing them. I do go in there in the office once in a while to put in lamps.
    Mr. BALL. Do you know the name of Skelton, isn't there a fellow named Skelton there?
    Mr. REILLY. No; I don't.
    Mr. BALL. And a man named Miller?
    Mr. REILLY. No.
    Mr. BALL. Were you all standing at about the same location?
    Mr. REILLY. All right close together.
    Mr. BALL. Were there any police officers there?
    Mr. REILLY. One behind me.
    Mr. BALL. One behind you?
    Mr. REILLY. He was standing back close to the tracks.
    Mr. BALL. That would be where?
    Mr. REILLY. About 8 or 10 feet back of us.
    Mr. BALL. Were there any other police officers there?
    Mr. REILLY. On the far side.
    Mr. BALL. What do you mean by "far side"?
    Mr. REILLY. Up to the side of where the tracks are on the west side.
    Mr. BALL. It would be west of where you are standing---you put a mark down and show me where the two police officers were standing, as you remember it.
    Mr. REILLY. Now, this is all tracks over here.
    Mr. BALL. All tracks along the railroad overpass?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes; these are all tracks in here. One of them was standing behind me and one of them was standing back around here back along here, but just how far back, I don't know.
    Mr. BALL Put a mark down there for me where the two police officers were standing.
    Mr. REILLY. I have an idea one of them was standing here, and for sure, I don't know.
    Mr. BALL. Where was the other one standing?
    Mr. REILLY. He was on the far side, but I didn't see him.
    Mr. BALL. Well, mark that "8."
    Mr. REILLY. He was on the far side--- and how far back---I don't know.
    Mr. BALL. What do you mean by "far side"? Do you mean he was south of here.
    Mr. REILLY. No; he was west of me.
    Mr. BALL. You see on the map, it's marked "Elm, Main and Commerce"--- this other police officer was near what?
    Mr. REILLY. I wouldn't know because I wasn't facing him and there was two of them up there.
    Mr. BALL. Back; by "far side" you mean that he was south of you?
    Mr. REILLY. No; he was west of me---you see, this place is east and west--- these streets.
    Mr. BALL. But the railroad overpass goes north and south?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes; north and south.
    Mr. BALL. Then, if he was west of you, he would be behind you?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes; behind me.
    Mr. BALL. Were there two police officers behind you?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes; there was two of them--both of them---one close and one here---
    Mr. BALL. Listen to the question---there were two police officers there, was there?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. Were they both behind you?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. One was closer than the other one?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. How close was the one that was closer to you?
    Mr. REILLY. I have an idea about 8 or 10 feet.

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    Mr. BALL. And how far away was the other one?
    Mr. REILLY. About the width of that overpass across--75 or 80 feet across there.
    Mr. BALL. One was 8 or 10 feet from you, and the other one was 75 feet from you and they were both behind you?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. Did you see the motorcade come down Elm Street?
    Mr. REILLY. No; not until it turned and started to come under the underpass.
    Mr. BALL. Did you see the President's car?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you first see it?
    Mr. REILLY. When it turned off of Houston Street and started around.
    Mr. BALL. Onto Elm Street?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. Is. that the first time you saw the President's car, when it turned off Houston Street onto Elm Street?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. How many people were there on the overpass at the time time?
    Mr. REILLY. Just what I told you.
    Mr. BALL. Tell me again.
    Mr. REILLY. Well, there was Holland and me and Dick Dodd and those two fellows out there and the two policemen---that's all I remember seeing out there.
    Mr. BALL. Did you hear something?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. What did you hear?
    Mr. REILLY. Three shots.
    Mr. BALL. Where did they seem to come from; what direction?
    Mr. REILLY. It seemed to me like they come out of the trees.
    Mr. BALL. What trees?
    Mr. REILLY. On the north side of Elm Street at .the corner up there.
    Mr. BALL. On the north side of Elm---on what corner?
    Mr. REILLY. Well, where all those trees are--you've never been down there?
    Mr. BALL. Yes; I've been there, but you tell me---I want you to tell me be-it has to go on the record here and it has to in writing.
    Mr. REILLY. Well, it's at that park where all the shrubs is up there---it's to the
north of Elm Street---up the slope.
    Mr. BALL. Did you see any pigeons fly?
    Mr. REILLY. No; I didn't pay no attention to that.
    Mr. BALL. What did you do after you heard the shots?
    Mr. REILLY. I just stood there a few minutes and then I went on down to the shop.
    Mr. BALL. Which way did you walk?
    Mr. REILLY. South.
    Mr. BALL. South?
    Mr. REILLY. Toward the post office.
    Mr. BALL. Your shop is down south of that place?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes; it's the other side of the station.
    Mr. BALL. Who walked with you?
    Mr. REILLY. Nobody.
    Mr. BALL. You walked alone?
    Mr. REILLY. Yes.
    Mr. BALL. I think that's all, Mr. Reilly. This will be written up and you can look it over and correct it if you wish, or you can waive your signature if you wish. Which do you wish--do you want to come down and sign it, or do you want to waive your signature?
    Mr. REILLY. No; I'll do anything you want me to.
    Mr. BALL. Well, you do anything you want to--it's your option--what do you want to do?
    Mr. REILLY. I'll sign it.
    Mr. BALL. All right.

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    This young lady will write it up and call you and you can come down here and sign it. How is that?
    Mr. REILLY. Well, will I have to come back?
    Mr. BALL. Yes; you will.
    Mr. REILLY. It is hard for me to get off.
    Mr. BALL. It is--why don't you waive your signature, if it is inconvenient to you, and we will offer this diagram as Exhibit A to your deposition.
    Mr. REILLY. All right.
    (Instrument marked by the reporter as "Reilly Exhibit A," for identification.)