TESTIMONY OF AUSTIN L. MILLER beginning at 6H223...

    The testimony of Austin L. Miller was taken at 2:40 p.m., on April 8, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

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    Mr. BELIN. Would you stand and-be sworn, sir?
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before the President's Commission is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
    Mr. MILLER. I do.
    Mr. BELIN. Would you state your name for the record.
    Mr. MILLER. Austin L. Miller.
    Mr. BELIN. Where do you live?
    Mr. MILLER. 1006 Fowl Circle, Mesquite, Tex.
    Mr. BELIN. Is that a suburb of Dallas?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes; it is just a little town.
    Mr. BELIN. How far out of Dallas?
    Mr. MILLER It borders the city limits of Dallas.
    Mr. BELIN. How old are you?
    Mr. MILLER. Twenty-six
    Mr. BELIN. Married?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you go to school in Texas?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes; I did.
    Mr. BELIN. How far did you go to school?
    Mr. MILLER. Tenth grade.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
    Mr. MILLER. I quit school and went to work.
    Mr. BELIN. Where did you work?
    Mr. MILLER. First worked at Titche's, and then for Robertson & King Motor Supply, and from there I went back to Titche's, and then to A. & P. Bakery Co., and then I worked for Presto Delivery Co., and then to Texas-Louisiana Freight Bureau where I am working now.
    Mr. BELIN. How long have you been there?
    Mr. MILLER. Ever since 1958, January 1958.
    Mr. BELIN. What do you do now?
    Mr. MILLER. Well, it is a combination job between mail clerk and tariff compiler.
    Mr. BELIN. Where were you working on Friday, November 22, 1963, which was the day that President Kennedy came to Dallas?
    Mr. MILLER. Texas-Louisiana Freight Bureau.
    Mr. BELIN. Where is that located?
    Mr. MILLER. 215 Union Terminal.
    Mr. BELIN. Where is the Union Terminal located?
    Mr. MILLER. That is down at---the address they give is 400 South Houston Street, but the book is not the correct address, but that is what they use. Because 400 is the opposite side of the block, and there is a city park there.
    Mr. BELIN. What cross street? Would it be near any intersection at all, or not?
    Mr. MILLER. On the corner of Houston, and I can't think of the name of that street now, right in front of the Dallas Morning News.
    Mr. BELIN. Would it be north or south of Main Street?
    Mr. MILLER. It would be south.
    Mr. BELIN. How many blocks south of Main Street?
    Mr. MILLER. Four blocks.
    Mr. BELIN. Four blocks south of Main Street on Houston?
    Mr. MILLER. Right.
    Mr. BELIN. All right, where were you at about the time the motorcade came by?
    Mr. MILLER. I was standing on the top of the triple underpass on the Main Street side.
    Mr. BELIN. Now when you say triple underpass, there are actually three underpasses there?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes. They are sitting side by side. It is Main, Commerce, and Elm. I was over Elm instead of Main Street. I was over Elm Street.
    Mr. BELIN. Now there is a place where the railroad tracks are, and that is the first. Is it all railroad tracks, or part railroad tracks and part freeway?

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    Mr. MILLER. All railroad tracks go over that particular set of underpass.
    Mr. BELIN. Where you were?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. When did you get there?
    Mr. MILLER. About 12:15 or 12:20.
    Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what time the motorcade came by?
    Mr. MILLER. No; I don't, not for sure.
    Mr. BELIN. About how long after you got there did you see the motorcade?
    Mr. MILLER. About 10 or 15 minutes.
    Mr. BELIN Anyone else standing around there that you knew?
    Mr. MILLER. Royce Skelton, the boy I work with and an elderly man who is a building maintenance man. By name, I don't know him, but a lot of other employees I have seen in the building other than myself.
    Mr. BELIN. Anyone else that you knew?
    Mr. MILLER. As far as knowing, no, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. You saw other people there?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you see any police officer around there?
    Mr. MILLER. There was one on both sides of the bridge.
    Mr. BELIN. Well, describe what happened. Did you see the motorcade come by?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir; it came down Main Street and turned north on Houston Street and went over two blocks and turned left onto Elm Street. Got about halfway down the hill going toward the underpass and that is when as far as I can recall the first shot was fired.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you know it was a shot when you heard it?
    Mr. MILLER. I didn't know it. I thought at first the motorcycle backfiring or somebody throwed some firecrackers out.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what did you hear or see?
    Mr. MILLER. After the first one, just a few seconds later, there was two more shots fired or, or sounded like a sound at the time. I didn't know for sure. And it was after that I ,saw some man in the car fall forward, and a woman next to
him grab him and hollered, and just what, I don't know exactly what she said.
    Mr. BELIN. Then what did you see?
    Mr. MILLER. About that time I turned and looked toward the there is a little plaza sitting on the hill. I looked over there to see if anything was there, who threw the firecracker or whatever it was, or see if anything was up there, and there wasn't nobody standing there, so I stepped back and looked on the tracks to see if anybody run across the railroad tracks, and there was nobody running across the railroad tracks. So I turned right straight back just in time to see the convertible take off fast.
    Mr. BELIN. You mean the convertible in which the President was riding?
    Mr. MILLER. I wouldn't want to say it was the President. It was a convertible but I saw a man fall over. I don't know whose convertible it was.
    Mr. BELIN. Where did the shots sound like they came from?
    Mr. MILLER. Well, the way it sounded like, it came from the, I would say from right there in the car. Would be to my left, the way I was looking at him over toward that incline.
    Mr. BELIN. Is there anything else that you can think of that you saw.
    Mr. MILLER. About the time I looked over to the side there, there was a police officer. No; a motorcycle running his motor under against the curb, and jumped off and come up to the hill toward the top and right behind him was some more officers and plainclothesmen, too.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone that might be, that gave any suspicious movements of any kind over there?
    Mr. MILLER. No, sir; I didn't.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone when you looked around on the railroad tracks, that you hadn't seen before?
    Mr. MILLER. No, sir; I didn't. We was all standing in one group right at the rail looking over, and the police officer, he was standing about 5 or 10 feet behind us.
    Mr. BELIN. Now about how many were there in that group altogether, if you can remember?

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    Mr. MILLER. I would say in the neighborhood of 10 or 12 people. Maybe more, maybe less.
    Mr. BELIN. Apart from those people, did you see anyone else in the vicinity at all on the railroad tracks?
    Mr. MILLER. There was one young man or boy. He was going to come up on the tracks, but the police officer stopped him and asked him where he was going, and he said he was going to come up where he could see, and he asked if he worked for the train station, and he said, "No," so the police officer made him go back down. Where he went to, I don't know.
    Mr. BELIN. When was this?
    Mr. MILLER. Oh, before the President came along.
    Mr. BELIN. About how much before, do you know? Offhand?
    Mr. MILLER. I couldn't say.
    Mr. BELIN. Do you know anything about this man or boy that you described? About how old he was, or anything?
    Mr. MILLER. I can't think. I would say he was in his early twenties.
    Mr. BELIN. Tall or short?
    Mr. MILLER. I don't remember that much about him. I do recall him coming up and the man talking to him and turning him back.
    Mr. BELIN. So he went back down?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes.
    Mr. BELIN. Where did he come up from?
    Mr. MILLER. He came up from the I am going by where I was standing. He was from our left, from around behind that parking lot.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see him again or not?
    Mr. MILLER. No, sir; I didn't.
    Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see anyone else in that area at all or anything on the railroad tracks at any time?
    Mr. MILLER. No, sir; not until after the shots were fired and the police officers came up the hill and climbed over the fence and started searching.
    Mr. BELIN. That was the only other people that you saw?
    Mr. MILLER. That is all I recall seeing.
    Mr. BELIN. Anything else that you can add that might be of help in any way to the Commission, or to the investigation into the assassination?
    Mr. MILLER. Offhand, no, sir; I don't recall anything else. My statement at the time may have some more, but I don't recall exactly what all did happen for sure.
    Mr. BELIN. Well, you and never met until Just a few minutes ago, did we?
    Mr. MILLER. No, sir.
    Mr.. BELIN. And as soon as you came in here, we started immediately taking your testimony under oath, is that correct?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes.
    Mr. BELIN. We never talked about the facts before then, did we?
    Mr. MILLER. No, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. Well, you have the right, if you like, to read this deposition when it is typewritten, and sign it, or else you can waive the signing of it and have it go directly to Washington without your signing. What would be your preference?
    Mr. MILLER. If you rather it would be signed---
    Mr. BELIN. We do not require it to be signed.
    Mr. MILLER. It makes no difference.
    Mr. BELIN. We have no preference. We do not require your signing. You can waive the signing of it to save yourself a trip coming down here again. or you have the right, if you like, to come down and read it and sign.
    Mr. MILLER. I will just waive it, because it would be to my advantage to not have to take off.
    Mr. BELIN. All right, we sure appreciate your coming down and thank you very much.
    There is one other thing. We have a sketch. I want to ask you to put on the sketch where you were.
    Mr. MILLER.. Okay.

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    Mr. BELIN. Handing you what we call "A. Miller Deposition Exhibit A," I am going to try and get this thing oriented here.
    Here is Houston Street running north this way.
    There is Elm. Here is the railroad overpass, and here is the freeway overpass.
    Mr. MILLER. Now where this "X" is at up here, is where we was standing.
    Mr. BELIN. Where it is marked "Pos. 5," there is an arrow there which I have put there, is that right?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. By the "X," which appears to be right over the overpass of Elm, which would be to the east side of the overpass, is that right?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN. That is where you were standing?
    Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir; it was.
    Mr. BELIN. All right, sir. Thank you very much.